Self-reference and loops of various kinds are integral to mind but have little to do with the sense of a self. There is no privileged point in a loop, they are purely relational, while the position of the self relative to the cycles of mind is absolute, if nothing else. The self is not located on a loop, so it cannot be the unique intersection of multiple loops. Awareness of the ego self is a form of self-reference, but this is a transient and exceptional state which draws mostly on imagination. The paradigm of self must be mind without self-reference, a sort of pure openness, or 'disclosure'.