Can there be consciousness without mind? Or mind without consciousness? Isn't there bare consciousness without a mind, just raw instantaneous feeling-will, prehension, and aren't there minds, processors of symbolic content without accompanying awareness, without a 'what it's like to be that', isn't that obvious? Our notions of mind and consciousness presume such elemental forms, but that may be the very heart of our misunderstanding. We build our models of reality going in the opposite direction from reality itself.